The Calculating World with Wing and You - All Comments

hp 5750

hp 5750 — Tue, 08 Jul 2008 22:03:55 GMT

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Re: Is it just the American Phenomenon?

cbrady@conehead.org — Thu, 15 May 2008 22:49:00 GMT

Interesting conversation thread. I live in the UK. I'm 47, and run a small software engineering company. I was introduced to RPN (like the french chap above) by a college prof who at tech college showed us his brand new HP32E way back in 78. For some reason I loved the fact that it had no equals sign and also adored the quality of the feel. I bought one that week, and still use it today. That said, I do have a long history with HP calculators, having owned the HP32E along with a HP41CV, HP48GX (which I used all the way through an hons degree as an adult), HP32SII, HP49G+, HP50 and I've just bought a lovely HP35S - which (as the French chap says) works well, because HP finally sorted out the quality of the keyboard. The 49G+ was totally unusable because the keyboard missed keystrokes, and was a major annoyance when I started using it in earnest. I'd love to see a HP35S with red LED's - well... it would at least please this engineer even if the batteries only lasted a bare 8 hours). I own a HP29C as well. But why RPN? To me, I think my love of RPN is something to do with its simple elegance. The idea of being forced to add brackets to make a chain calculation work on an algebraic calc is both complex and difficult to use. The fact that you can't see intermediate results without trying to store them in memory is a real disadvantage because it prevents you checking your calculation as it proceeds. Simple features that are natural to RPN like swap X,Y just really have no direct corresponding feature in the other type of calc - and some of it comes down to the way I think - which can oddly be a bit machine like. Put it this way, if you're used to assembly programming, then stack based RPN makes a very elegant kind of sense. It wasn't long after I started using my HP32E calculator that I realised I found it very difficult to borrow a standard algebraic and make it work. I still feel the same to this day, nearly 30 years on, and wouldn't ever get rid of my HP's.

Re: Is it just the American Phenomenon?

tommywatson@sbcglobal.net — Sat, 10 May 2008 21:32:00 GMT

Please reintroduce the 11c/15c. The 11C has to be the best all-around rpn calculator ever designed. This fifty year old would purchase two the minute they were available. The new HP(s) calculators are not practical in their design, also they look like the cheap TIs and Sharps of the early 1990's. I own a 12C, a 20S, a 35s and a 41C. I probably won't buy another calculator in my life because I need one. I will however buy two of the one that I want .... the 11C.

Re: Personalize your HP Calculators!

jakes@pahhc.org — Wed, 07 May 2008 23:49:00 GMT

The most powerful way HP has traditionally allowed users to personalize their calculators has been by using key assignments. Pioneered on the HP41-series machines form 1979 to 1990, the capability to assign any function or user program to any key has been maintained in the HP48, 49 and 50 series graphing machines up to the present day. With both the HP41 and HP48 series, a user could also record the custom function names on keyboard overlays and place them over top the keyboard for an instantly personalized calculator. Sadly, the capability to attach a keyboard overlay to the machine was discontinued, starting with the hp49g in 1999 and has not been reinstated. But for users who preferred more "steak" and less "sizzle", the best personalization would be the ability to redefine a keyboard with anything desired.

Can you help?

seniorinvestor — Sat, 29 Mar 2008 11:22:00 GMT

Hello. I've got an HP-12C. I have a problem that I don't know how to solve. I've been presented with an investment that gives me 16% return on the first year. Then, I will earn 3% from years 2 through 14. What is the average annual interest rate at the end of 14 years? Could you please walk me through the function keys to arrive at the answer? Also, I don't think average annuall interst rate is the correct name, am I looking for a nominal rate, an IRR, an effective rate? What is the proper terminology? Thanks.

Re: Invent

steven.leibson — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 22:22:00 GMT

I've just posted an interview with Tom Osborne, inventor of the first two HP claculators, the HP 9100 and HP 35. He explains where RPN came from in some detail. It's here: http://www.edn.com/blog/980000298/post/800022280.html

Re: Is it just the American Phenomenon?

dlachieze — Wed, 13 Feb 2008 14:13:00 GMT

I'm from France and I've learned RPN at the age of 15 when our math teacher introduced us to the hp 25 calculator. Since then I've used both RPN and algebraic calculators but I've bought only hp RPN calculators. ----------- I prefer using RPN over algebraic, but it's difficult to explain exactly why. I've seen passionnate discussions on RPN vs Algebraic but in my case I think my preference comes from a mix of true RPN advantages for calculations (once you know RPN it's elegant and efficient for long formulas), and more subjective items such as "elite" factor associated to RPN ("not used by everybody") and the attractiveness of the hp calculators (at least the old ones): build quality, keyboard feeling, design... making them highly desirable items to own. ----------- I've a dead 41C that I would like to get repaired, plus working 11C, 32s & 48GX. ----------- I've just got a new hp 35s which looks like a great calculator with most of the values associated to the old hp calulators (it looks and feels as a quality item with a nice design - I need to look to the detailed features now...). ----------- Btw I'm surprised that the hp 35s user manual is not available as a pdf download. The link to it on hp web shows nothing: http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/manualCategory?product=3442987&lc=en&cc=us

Re: Is it just the American Phenomenon?

harrypan@comcast.net — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 17:32:00 GMT

I know I tackled RPN only because after many years I finally acquired an HP calc which I had craved for a long time. Since Polish Notation was a European convention I would have assumed that it was more of a European phenomenon. I can say that once you understand RPN you tend to favor it and stick with it.

Re: Welcome to my Blog

ray@datech-net.com — Mon, 04 Feb 2008 18:41:00 GMT

I'm interested in the last ten years' history of the calculator division inside of HP.

I know there was a time when a former CEO of HP announced that the calculator product line was to be discontinued, as it was no longer profitable. (I remember this, because I read the press release when she said it, and I saw all my friends from the Personal Computation Division go and find other jobs.) Fortunately, that shortsighted view of the calculator business did not prevail, and HP's calculators rose from the dead, but it was too late -- the group in Corvallis that had produced all of HP's great calculators up to that point was disbanded. A rumor circulated that the calculator effort went to Singapore, where it languished for many years. A "skunk works" group in Australia, made up of several very smart people from France, created the HP49 and a few of its successors, but it seemed that with little or no sales and marketing resources, HP had abandoned most of their calculator market niches to TI, the PC, or nobody.

Then it appeared that the calculator division had revived, outsourced all of their R&D work to Kinpo Electronics, an OEM whose primary efforts appeared to be in creating "plus", "II" or "B" versions of existing designs, and in upgrading the FW from Saturn-based code to ARM-based code.

It looked like HP's presence in the calculator marketplace was being maintained solely by that mighty mite, the HP12C, until HP calculator design went all the way back to its roots and, only last year, gave the world the HP35S.

This is all I have been able to discover, and it's not much. Wing, what else can you tell us that will help to fill in the blanks? I posted some questions on comp.sys.hp48, but nobody has responded to them, so it could be that nobody (outside of HP) knows what's going on.

Re: Memoir or Trivia?

davidhankey — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 14:47:00 GMT

Hello, Its good to see that HP Calculators have a blog but its sad that so few people seem to be using it. I hope this improves. I have owned HP calculators since 1972. Starting with an HP35, then an HP25, an HP41c, an HP48sx, HP49 and an HP49G+. In the early days HP calculators represented something very special. I recall the adverts that appeared in Scientific American showing the HP25c, the HP67 and HP97 and I recall the struggle between Texas Instruments and HP over the efficiency of RPN versus their algebraic approach but after the HP48 something changed and it is that change that I would like to comment on in the hope that HP may produce something special again. In the last few years there has been a lot of adverse comment on the HP49 keyboard with its lost keystrokes. There are three things that people notice in a calculator; the look and feel of the keyboard, the quality of the screen and the build quality. Tick those boxes and people will see an immediate differentiator with Texas or Casio. A second area is what can I interface this calculator to? The HP41 had an HP-IL interface, a printer, a wand and a number of add-in modules. It could be part of the world and I recall articles in HP Journal talking about remote data logging. The HP50G has an serial interface but it does not seem to connect to anything in the real world; I don't even think HP supplies a cable. If I was in school, university, a research lab or even a hobbyist looking for a cheap data gatherer/controller for an experimental or robot setup for example HP calculators don't offer that option anymore - Texas Instruments calculators do though. Recently I saw a the Microvision Pico Projector at CES 2008. I thought when I saw it that if such a device could be part of or an external module that could connected to an HP calculator that could allow a higher resolution 'virtual' display screen in a lab environment projected onto a wall or down onto a desk it could change the format of future calculators. Such innovative ideas could help allow HP to provide a 'Must Buy' calculator of the future. Imagine the layout; a keyboard and single line display, like the HP71, but with a plug in virtual screen option as described above. The larger size allowing interface cards to be plugged in.

Re: Is it just the American Phenomenon?

je05215 — Wed, 23 Jan 2008 03:58:00 GMT

I would say that I saw plenty of users in the UK and Germany, no experience with the Far East myself With America being a key market for HP and RPN, when will the the new 17BII+'s and 10BII's become available here?

Re: 20 minutes of your time NOW save you 20

blueelectron9 — Mon, 31 Dec 2007 21:45:00 GMT

I use my HP50G daily at California State University, Long Beach where I'm studying for my B.S.E.E. I see a few student with the older 48GX model (and I have one, too) but all my attempts to get them to "upgrade" are in vain as they tell me they just don't know how to use the machine they have. Otherwise, the university is littered with TI products. It's to my advantage, really, because even the folks with the TIs don't really know how to use them; as I'm opening up a matrix and filling in each entry with equations that will subsequently be followed by an XQ and a SOLVE to obtain the answer so very quickly. As a boy, I used to play with the TI calculators (TI-30) and read the calculator manuals that came with them. I loved it--there was so much to learn. TI covered so many examples of how to use the machine, and it didn't hurt that the LED display would change to a chasing dot pattern to save power when I didn't press a key for awhile... My HP experience started when I moved to California and saw the HP32. About a week after I bought it, the local store exchanged it for the newly released HP48SX. It was my luck that the owner's son had somehow had connections with HP back then. I bought two HP 128 kB memory cards and the wireless printer to go with it. All in all, I spent about $900 IIRC. I've been hooked ever since and am an avid preacher of RPN. When I bought the 48GX, I had left the university due to an illness. When I was ready to return, I realized that most of the students were using TI devices. Of importance was a CAS. Again, I was back to using a TI device--this time the Voyage 200 PLT. What a cumbersome unit to use! My fingers would have to press six times as many keystrokes (and travel vast distances from one end of the keyboard to the other) in order to enter a basic equation. Variable names had to be limited to eight characters and were only lower case. Memory management was a mess and nested directories were out. This was the price I was willing to pay for a CAS (at the time, I didn't know how to properly use the libraries available for integration, etc., on the 48GX). With the 49G+ keyboard issues, I held off on getting another HP until the rumors started to fly about the 50G's release. SCORE! What a beauty! The machine has a fast processor, a larger display, and one heck of a sweet CAS. On top of it all, it had a native USB port AND a serial port that I was going to use to interface to data acquisition equipment. Coupled with the widely available programming tools (we had to hack and crack the 48SX) and all of the quality documentation regarding SysRPL programming, I was set to be back in RPN heaven. I love RPN's ability to allow me to visualize the expression in the book and "enter" each element that I need--like a shorthand notation that translates what's on the page to the machine to process. It's so intuitive and simple; plus, it allows me to focus on aspects of the equation that are important to learn or to group for understanding, rather than focus on if I have counted the correct number of parenthesis, etc. I'm still exercising my quest to get more at the university to switch to the 50G, but until then, I keep my boy with me and cherish the fact that I REALLY know how to use this splendid workhorse.

Re: Welcome to my Blog

mark4flies@aol.com — Sat, 29 Dec 2007 16:21:00 GMT

My first calculator was the HP-25C. I tried using a TI-59, which seemed more powerful, but it was much more awkward, and so I sold it to a friend. RPN made a huge difference to me. I progressed through all versions of the HP-41 as well as exploiting all of the extension modules and HP-IL devices. I bought an HP-86 computer. I still have a HP-28C and HP-42S. I gave my HP-49G to a friend (still using his own HP-41) when I bought a new HP-49G+. You are so right about the community of HP users. I belonged to the PPC from the beginning to its end. It was all about sharing information and enabling everybody to do what they wanted. For example, I learned synthetic programming on the HP-41. I do not need more than the built-in powerful user RPL today. Now I routinely search Internet sources of HP calculator information and news about developments. These calculators have always been professional tools for me. Fascinating tools, too. They got me through college courses and graduate school research projects. (For example, I obtained the 3-D atomic coordinates for half of the human hemoglobin molecule from Brookhaven National Laboratory, so I had to compute the other half by reflection matrices. A HP-41 program, and data backed up on the HP-IL cassette tape drive, made the work easy, safe, and secure.) Now when I have to refresh my memory about an old topic or wrestle to learn a new one, I still keep my HP 49G+ right next to my textbook. I am a trainer for a large software company and use computers daily to teach, for research, and to develop software solutions. I have powerful software tools, including Mathematica, but I still like to use my HP calculator because it is truly personal. It starts almost immediately, at the same point where I left it when I turned it off. It is highly customizable and extendable. A very organic and, again, personal device. Off the shelf, it distinguishes itself from other computing products because of its fully integrated nature, its completely cohesive environment. It might take twenty minutes to learn RPN and understand the 'mindset' of a HP calculator, but you really miss it almost at once when you try to use another kind of calculator or computer software that is only a collection of powerful features.

Re: 20 minutes of your time NOW save you 20

mnhollinger — Sat, 29 Dec 2007 00:14:00 GMT

Thank you HP and Mr. Cheung for this blog! Recent posts on comp.sys.hp48 have rekindled my interest in programming HP calculators even though I moved onto C programming in 1998 and just recently to Java. The first HP I had my hands on was the HP 41CX way back in 1987 when I was employed by a land surveying company. I didn't get serious about programming until 1993 when I bought the HP 48GX and I needed job-specific programs to help me out on the job. There was one particular surveyor/programmer who I bought commercial software from that helped me on my way. It is amazing to me how HP went from the 8 MHz Saturn processor with 256K RAM to the latest 75 MHz ARM with a 1 GB SD card. I'm glad HP continues to expand the command set. Some people say the HP calculator is a dinosaur when one considers modern hardware and software. Well, I like the fact that I can turn on my HP instantly, it can fit in my pants pocket and I don't have to compile code. The User RPL is relatively simple to learn too. The uninformed will never know the beauty of RPN and the interactive stack. I hope this blog will benefit the continued effort of HP to produce the world's finest calculators.

Re: 20 minutes of your time NOW save you 20

Bill Markwick — Thu, 27 Dec 2007 21:13:00 GMT

I'm glad to see that HP is responding to calculator owners. This is very good news. My story is the same as many others: my first calculator was an HP-45, my current one is an HP49G+, and I've had many in between. I've also used and owned many types of HP test equipment. I couldn't *live* without an HP calc! Thanks again, Bill